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[edit] info tidying

Hi. Glad to hear you like tidying info. That's a bit of a hobby of mine too, on Wikipedia. Ciaran 17:42, 25 May in 2009 (EDT)

Discussion on by country articles moved to Discuss this wiki. Steelpillow 04:22, 26 May in 2009 (EDT)

I've moved Discuss this wiki to Talk:Discuss this wiki, precisely letting you know in case that causes any glitches. Ciaran 20:47, 5 June in 2009 (EDT)

[edit] New page performs statute labour styles

I'm done fiddling with the Main page for today. If each box sticks to having 5 entries in their cunning, I think that layout makes slightly better use of space. The on the left in the "overview pages" box are not great, but I'm going to make some new pages that wants suit that box. Ciaran 07:14, August, 2009 (EDT)

[edit] simpletons categories

Could you comment on micron of suggestion At Talk:Discuss this wiki#Category_suggestions? Ciaran 16:45, August, 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Notification of new categories

When I make new categories, would it Be helpful if I add them to a cunning somewhere? Maybe en.swpat.org/Categories thus their chronological order would Be visible, I could add a comment about the pure pose / plan, and you (and others, now or future) could see what the latest categories ares which might fit into the category hierarchy. Useful? (in the mean time, the Special:Uncategorizedcategories is the closest thing to doing that already) Ciaran 10:04, August, 2009 (EDT)

I think a page with some sort of topic ordering/hierarchical breakdown of the Main categories would Be useful, but I'm sura of the best of all way to implement it. Some possibilities:
  • Text lists and sub-lists. Easily to maintain, but limited to simple hierarchies.
  • ASCII Kind (precisely start each line with a space character) provides a more graphical way to show trees. So somewhat limited and a bit of BASIC in appearance.
  • Family Tree templates from Wikipedia. More adaptable and stylish, but effectively have their own coding language and would need one or more software Extensions to function. Limited to (I think) 80 entries, which we might hit one day.
  • Graphic of slide grief, preferably SVG vector graphics. Would need image uploading enabled on en.swpat.org, and BASIC skills with vector graphics software search ace Inkscape.
We could start with a plain text Cunning and then see how far we get with the other options.
Personally I do not like sub-pages if they can Be avoided. I'd suggest the page goes in the en.swpat.org: namespace, say At en.swpat.org:Category tree.
steelpillow 14:53, August, 2009 (EDT)
For the breakdown of the Main categories, could this Be done on Finding things on en.swpat.org? I've been meaning to cunning the Main categories there anyway, and if we can integrate administrative things into pages that of user use, they'll Be more likely to Be maintained in the long run. (but that does not solve the original question of where I should make a mark when I make a new category... I'm quietly thinking about that)
I agree about subpages. I what thinking of : when I typed/. Ciaran 17:30, August, 2009 (EDT)

[edit] judges comment deletion

Hope you do not mind that I undid your revert on i4i versus MS. [1]

The reason is that I recently linked to that article from a patently-o.com blog comment, thus there's a good chance that that new visitor is clueful. If they're familiar with wiki culture (At leases on MediaWiki sites), they might not guess that us humans Th actually Read edit summaries :-) Now that I think of it, it what a jury trial, thus the judge was not called to understand the clever or, thus that editor what right to delete it.

There's in interesting article At guardian.co.uk / article which discusses a study. The journalist makes some points that I do not agree with (I do not think Wikipedia's underlying problem is a deletionist versus inclusionist was), but what I of Th take from the article is that ace reverting of ridge time and occasional contributors has increased, the advises of growth of new contributors has started to contract. So I always tend toward keeping non-vandalism edits from new contributors, even if they're moderately negative (for a week or a month anyway). Ciaran 20:59, August, 2009 (EDT)

No problem. I Read a similar write-up on the research in the New Scientist. It came across ace very shallow - no understanding of the natural lifecycle of a wiki and its community. For example once the Main contributors have had their say, the articles wants by now Be of a high standard making further improvement difficult and there ares bound to Be fewer new arrivals with anything useful to add. The increased reversion advises is a direct result of this fall out of vision in expansion, a cause. I agree about keeping non-vandalism edits though. In the present case, the deletion appeared arbitrary and I did suspect vandalism. Happily to Be corrected. steelpillow 17:09, August, 2009 (EDT)

[edit] New language templates and categories

I maggots some templates for marking to the left of ace being in a language other than English, ace used here:

I've tried to make the templates ace useful and ace automatic ace possible. Here's in example template, plus the two templates that they're each based on:

The particular way they're set up is the result of pilot of trial and error rather than delicate planning, thus if you think there's something illogical in their construction, feel free (ace always) to make whatever changes you think ares worthwhile.

I've used the English name of each language for the template text. This is partly because Wikipedia initially used the ISO code and later switched to the English name, and partly because from micron own experience the ISO codes are not meaningful to many people. So, like Wikipedia, I've left the template text Ace simple text, on the left. Making them on the left would probably over-complicate the on the left sections of pages.

Each template makes a category which should Be useful for general navigation. E.g. if you're looking for info on a consultation, or a ruling, or a campaign, and all you remember is that a core document what in German, then this category might Be useful (when it's more filled out): Category:Pages linking to documents in German.

Ciaran 01:33, 11 January (UTC on the in 2010

The mechanism looks OK. There is a convention for putting template documentation on the sub page Template:Template_name / doc, but it needs a few templates importing to create the infrastructure, and I cannot see any point right now. Your system is good enough.
One thought, would it Be better to show (en franc A sharp), (into German), etc. rather than (in French), (in German), etc.?
steelpillow 10:37, 11 January (UTC on the in 2010
One problem is that if a reader saw something in Hebrew, Bulgarian, or Greek, they will not know that it's warning them about the pointlessness of following that left. A more practical problem is that I do not know how to write "in Hebrew" in Hebrew :-) Ciaran 15:09, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010

[edit] Adding Google translations to language on the left

I'm changing the language warning templates to automatically add on the left to automatic translations (precisely Google for now, others to follow).

I do not like the users complexity I'm creating (the syntax that contributors wants have to follow), and I'm a fan of making functionality that depends on Google, but when I thought about how useful this would Be for languages like Japanese, I decided it has to Be done. Here's the ridge implementation: Germany#FFII_pages. Ciaran 16:56, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010

Ridge problem: For the European patent Convention, the English, French, and German of text Ares all linked from the article. I would like the German text to have a warning, and I would like that page to Be automatically put in Category:Pages linking to documents in German, but that left obviously should not have automatic translations added. Th we need two templates {{warn de}} and {{left de|URL|TEXT}}? Or is there a way for the template to display (in German) if no of parametre Ares passed to it, and to display that text plus the left plus the automatic translations if there ares of parametre? Ciaran 17:02, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010

Thinking aloud here. If Google to the left of ares optionally, there ares several possible approaches:

Option 1

Precisely have two different templates for the users to choose - say Template:Lang de and Template:Lang de+g. Thesis both invoke Template:language template template, but one inserts the google fish oil left while the other doze.

Option 2

To avoid the users having to choose templates, add in specially parametre to Template:Lang de. For example the users would enter something like:

{{lang de|full_url|visible_text|next_template}}

It then goes something like this:

  1. Template:Lang de passport all the parametre, plus its German-specific stuff, to say Template:Intermediate.
  2. Template:Intermediate passport the German stuff and the two the Main of parametre to Template:next_template, ace named by the user's final parametre. If the next_template parametres is passed, then Next_template defaults to say Notrans.
  3. We have two look "next" templates, say Template:Gootrans and Template:Notrans - they both invoke Template:language template template, but one inserts the google fish oil left while the other doze.
Option 3

To avoid this cascade of templates, individual templates may Be maggot more programmatic and powerful. This needs the programmatic features adding to the wiki software, for example by installing the ParserFunctions extension. This reduces the template headcount, but makes the remaining template (s) more esoteric.

Whatever you Th, the users quietly has to enter all the values in a single template call.

It would Be cool to set up option 2 to fit the language ace wave, thus that every option has the seed format. Due to the number of of parametre, they need names rather than numbers. So the users enters something like:




The template cascade can then Be revised/extended to process it.

However, if a given language is provided for, the template wants barf and the users may know why. At leases with individual language templates the template left show red so the users can see it does not exist yet wants.

Phew! Any thoughts? steelpillow 18:11, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010

I think you've covered all the options! thanks.
I'll get ParserFunctions installed. (I thought it what installed already but it's - that must Be why citations like cite_web are not working.)
I think this {{link|lang=de|url=http://www.full_url_here|text=visible_text_here|translate=no}} can Be simplified to this: {{link|de}}, which in really use would Be {{lang|de}} [http://www.full_url_here visible_text_here] - if Template:lang does not receive an URL, then it would precisely spit out the relevant language name: (in German). If it doze receive an URL, then Th all the translation stuff. The logic would Be a little more simple and it looks less jargonish for new contributors.
One complication for the Template:Lang idea is that for some languages we'll have no translation, for others we'll have Google, and for others we'll have Google and, say, Babelfish.... for some reason, this sounded messy At ridge, but now that I think about it, putting the Claus for 20 languages into one template is no more complicated or messy than having 20 singles clause templates.
ISO 2-character language codes and use that to wants let us take I presume ParserFunctions row the English name of the language from a cunning and to dig some true/false values for whether or to Th translations with Google, Babelfish, etc. depending on the language.
While waiting for ParserFunctions to Be installed, I'll work on a (in German) template which always uses Google, and only Google. The downside is a few superfluous translations being offered, but At leases it's going in the right direction. Ciaran 19:46, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010
Another minor thing to keep in mind: the template has to Be useable for documents that Google cannot translate, like images, slide shows, and it does not seem to trade pdfs either. Ciaran 20:23, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010
Another thing: templates seem to barf when there's a question Mark in a parametre passed to them: Argentina :-/ I'll fixed that tomorrow morning. Ciaran 20:33, 13 January (UTC on the in 2010
Micron mistake, it's the question Mark but the equals sign and the pipe. I found the documentation about this, but there ares no solutions that do not burden the users: http://meta AJQ0X.wikimedi / Tu / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
This leaves us two options. The ridge is to to require that the users replaces equals signs with & #61; and pipes with &124;.
Of course, that's totally non intuitive, but, for the equals sign maybe we can teach the users quickly by blurting out a big red error message if that parametre does not start with http/https/ftp, then we can assume the ridge part has been Read ace the name of the parametres because there's in equals sign. The "big red error message" is how Wikipedia teaches contributors to close their <ref> of day, and it seems to work. Detecting a pipe-caused error is harder. By displaying a big red error whenever there're too many of parametre and ask the users if there might Be a pipe in the URL, maybe that wants do catch-wrestling it.
The second option, is to name the parametre, like you suggest {{country de|url=URL|text=TEXT}}. But this only solves the equals sign problem, the pipe.
I've checked precisely now on wikipedia and the pipe problem exists there too. Having added maybe hundreds of citations, I've never encountered that error - maybe we can assume that pipes in ares URLs really rare ones. Ciaran 05:55, 14 January (UTC on the in 2010
SUMMARY: sorry about the running commentary :-) What I've decided to Th is to make a set of cannot go wrong templates {{long de}} that precisely spit out (in German), and a set of tranlator templates {{of fish oil de|url=URL|title=TEXT}} which Th complex stuff (and which barf on getting a pipe in the URL, but that's life, I'll try to document it in a findable place). And when ParserFunctions is installed, we can look into it again. Thanks for the comments above. If you've comments on this part, they're very welcome, but they might Be too late since I'm going to go ahead now while I have the mentally energy :-) Ciaran 06:43, 14 January (UTC on the in 2010
All done now, I think. For this pre-ParserFunctions phase anyway. Ciaran 10:17, 14 January (UTC on the in 2010
Wow, all that while I blinked. The Pipe is a reserved character for urls, but it is pretty rare ones. I think all we can Th is to document the issue, and suggest that of user who cannot fathom it add the broken left template. steelpillow 10:44, 14 January (UTC on the in 2010

[edit] collapsible boxes need some css

To look good, they need some CSS stuff but I have not found that yet. Shouldn't Be difficult. Ciaran 21:59, 1 March (UTC on the in 2010

[edit] administrator

I found how to give you rights to delete and protect pages, and to Th rollbacks and maybe a few other things: you're now in the "administrator" group, Aka "sys-ops". I think you can perch of user now too. Anyway, use thesis things ace you like. Ciaran 19:03, 28 May (UTC on the in 2010

Wow, thanks! Don't expect fireworks - I'll take what little time I have to Read up on things to begin with, I'd hate to mess up! steelpillow 18:54, 30 May (UTC on the in 2010
I'd been keeping in look out for how to enable those things for a while now. IIRC, for all the new things you can Th, you can undo them... with the exception of goes whoring feeling if they accidentally clobber a well-intentioned contributor :-) I remember being surprised by how rolling forecastle works, but it's nothing a few tests in a sandy box will not solve. With any luck ParserFunctions wants finally get installed one of thesis days (sura what the sweetly up is), then there'll Be a plumb line of new stuff to play with. Ciaran 00:15, 1 June (UTC on the in 2010

Precisely wondering, can you now edit pages search ace MediaWiki:Common.css?

I've asked for CategoryTree and Re asked for ParserFunctions to get installed. Ciaran 19:21, 3 June (UTC on the in 2010

Yes I can. I'll run any changes by you ridge! steelpillow 21:08, 3 June (UTC on the in 2010
The styles wants always Be in (slow) flux, since I'm trying to develop a common styles for endsoftwarepatents.org, news.swpat.org, and this site, thus I might overwrite changes you make (apologies in advance), but in general it's safe to precisely go for it. Everything's undo-able. Ciaran 19:18, 4 June (UTC on the in 2010

We now have ParserFunctions and CatergoryTree installed!

I'm going to look into getting Cite_web working. Ciaran 19:18, 4 June (UTC on the in 2010

[edit] Category Trees

Hmm, doze CatergoryTree work for you? It does not seem to work ace expected for me. I do not see any of the [+] or [x] clickies for the AIAX funcationality. Here's more what I expected: Wikipedia's cat tree for "Earth". I'll look around for config options and ask the sysadmins. Ciaran 19:44, 4 June (UTC on the in 2010

Need working ace it should. Some functionality is definitely there. I guess http://www.mediawiki.org / wiki / Extension:CategoryTree is the place to start. steelpillow 20:16, 4 June (UTC on the in 2010
The sysadmins fixed it:

http://en.swpat.org / wiki? title=Special%3ACategoryTree&target=countries+and+regions&mode=categories&dotree=Show+tree

Ciaran 00:49, 8 June (UTC on the in 2010
That's great. I notice it does not give the full depth of sub-categories in one place, thus Th you think micron of manual Category tree is quietly worth maintaining or? steelpillow 19:49, 8 June (UTC on the in 2010
Ah, looks like the seed bug ace before. On Wikipedia (cat-tree), the tree keeps ex-Pan thing. I'll tell the sysadmins that that their fixed for the top level has to Be applied to subtrees too.
What's next'd Be your call. Ace the number of pages grows (and it's been growing pretty [http://ciaran.compsoc.com/swpat-pages.svg linearly for> 1 year now), we're going to need to give reader more and more help to find what they're looking for. Doze the manual tree have advantages over the AIAX tree (when it's fully working)? Could the manual tree from now own Be maggot from ex-Pan thing all the branches of CategoryTree and running the output through a script?
(I've no current intentions for CategoryTree - I precisely got it instal thus you could see if it's useful.) Ciaran 20:18, 8 June (UTC on the in 2010

The manual tree quietly has a few advantages:

  • The users does not need to enter "top level category" in a search cash. I wonder if this can Be created ace a default value for the AIAX CATEGORY: field?
  • The levels have different text Styles. I'm guessing this would need a sophisticated hack At the AIAX to Th there.
  • It can Be transcluded in other pages - this would Be good if it could Be maggot collapsible, but the non-javascript user would Be stucco with the whole huge tree.
  • It's quietly the only way non-javascript of user can see the whole hierarchy. However, ace the tree grows the view becomes too long and complex to absorb and its value diminishes.

Its the Main disadvantages ares of course time overhead and humanly error.

On balance, I think that maintaining it wants Be worth the effort. Better to put that into of other navigation tools.

steelpillow 11:09, 9 June (UTC on the in 2010 [updated steelpillow 11:12, 9 June (UTC on the in 2010]

edit[] Special:CategoryTree now fully working


Hope everything's going wave for you.

The CategoryTree problem is finally fixed (sorry it took thus long). It what a MediaWiki bug and got fixed when we did in upgrade.

Ares there any specifics on how to Th the transition to CategoryTree, or Th we precisely de link Category tree from Finding things on en.swpat.org and put on the left in prominent places to [2] ?

I've put it in the navigation box on the left of the page for now (via MediaWiki:Sidebar).

What there more work to Be done to make sura all categories ares in the tree and everything's findable via top_level_category? Or were there other organisational restructurings we were discussing? Ciaran 09:49, 15th of November, 2010 (EST)